.... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
information.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

> To be accused is meaningless ...

On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
above suspicion.

On 2024-05-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>
>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>
> On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
> above suspicion.

Well we had better try and find him/her/or any other pro-noun.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>
>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>
>On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
>above suspicion.
Your statement is plain illogical. Anybody can be accused of anything, that
does not mean it is valid. Until there is evidence they are ipso facto above
suspicion.

Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
>On 2024-05-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>>
>>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>>
>> On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
>> above suspicion.
>
>Well we had better try and find him/her/or any other pro-noun.
Precisely Gordon - If what Lawrence believes to be true is in fact correct then
we are all guilty and none of us can be trusted. That is what i so silly about
his argument.
There has been no evidencve provided therefore the accusation is currently just
politicial nastiness.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:13:32 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>
>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>
>On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
>above suspicion.
Winston will be absolutely delighted with the Headline - it continues
its bias towards the current government - Peters is of course a very
senior politician as Deputy PM and Foreign Minister, but he has very
seldom been described as a diplomat - he is known for aggression to
anyone that does not agree with him. He is as Foreign Minister usually
fairly good at giving the speeches written for him by Foreign Affairs,
(although apparently his unacknowledged plagiarism of the Gettysburg
Address was apparently his own work), and that has mean that he has
not often previously made the mistakes he has made recently of
threatening current relationships and expressed foreign policy. Too
close an alignment with the USA through a defense agreement that is
seen as "dealing with" potential conflict with China may not be a good
way to risk 27% of our exports ; if we are to make such a major change
from previous policies it would be usual for that to be expressed in
gentler way by the Prime Minister, and the reasons for such a change
signaled to New Zealanders. Out stance on the middle east has been
that of a concerned country that is capable of independent thought,
having humanitarian priorities, and willing to help consensus through
concern about veto powers that aligned us with other small countries
without alienating any of our trading partners.

Under the circumstances a cheap shot art a senior ex-politician from
Australia appears both unnecessary and unproductive. Then abusing that
person is just stupid - he could have gained more by ignoring his
comments; but this is after all Winston - he walks to his own drum,
and we can expect the unexpected from him - the incident emphasises
that he may well only have a short time left in government and there
has been speculation that he will make his mark by breaking the
coalition rather than quietly allow Seymour to become Deputy PM -
being capricious with the role he has been given may mean that the
Prime Minister has to actually lead rather than rely on the coalition
agreements cobbled together without adequate consideration or
consultation with even the MPs from each coalition party.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:13:32 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>
>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>
>On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
>above suspicion.
Winston will be absolutely delighted with the Headline - it continues
its bias towards the current government - Peters is of course a very
senior politician as Deputy PM and Foreign Minister, but he has very
seldom been described as a diplomat - he is known for aggression to
anyone that does not agree with him. He is as Foreign Minister usually
fairly good at giving the speeches written for him by Foreign Affairs,
(although apparently his unacknowledged plagiarism of the Gettysburg
Address was apparently his own work), and that has mean that he has
not often previously made the mistakes he has made recently of
threatening current relationships and expressed foreign policy. Too
close an alignment with the USA through a defense agreement that is
seen as "dealing with" potential conflict with China may not be a good
way to risk 27% of our exports ; if we are to make such a major change
from previous policies it would be usual for that to be expressed in
gentler way by the Prime Minister, and the reasons for such a change
signaled to New Zealanders. Out stance on the middle east has been
that of a concerned country that is capable of independent thought,
having humanitarian priorities, and willing to help consensus through
concern about veto powers that aligned us with other small countries
without alienating any of our trading partners.

Under the circumstances a cheap shot art a senior ex-politician from
Australia appears both unnecessary and unproductive. Then abusing that
person is just stupid - he could have gained more by ignoring his
comments; but this is after all Winston - he walks to his own drum,
and we can expect the unexpected from him - the incident emphasises
that he may well only have a short time left in government and there
has been speculation that he will make his mark by breaking the
coalition rather than quietly allow Seymour to become Deputy PM -
being capricious with the role he has been given may mean that the
Prime Minister has to actually lead rather than rely on the coalition
agreements cobbled together without adequate consideration or
consultation with even the MPs from each coalition party.

In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
says...
>
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
> ><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
> information.

Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>says...
>>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>>
>> >><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>>action,
>> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so
>>far
>> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
>> information.
>
>Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not. That
information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another.
I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:13:32 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>>
>>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>>
>>On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
>>above suspicion.
>Winston will be absolutely delighted with the Headline - it continues
>its bias towards the current government - Peters is of course a very
>senior politician as Deputy PM and Foreign Minister, but he has very
>seldom been described as a diplomat - he is known for aggression to
>anyone that does not agree with him. He is as Foreign Minister usually
>fairly good at giving the speeches written for him by Foreign Affairs,
>(although apparently his unacknowledged plagiarism of the Gettysburg
>Address was apparently his own work), and that has mean that he has
>not often previously made the mistakes he has made recently of
>threatening current relationships and expressed foreign policy. Too
>close an alignment with the USA through a defense agreement that is
>seen as "dealing with" potential conflict with China may not be a good
>way to risk 27% of our exports ; if we are to make such a major change
>from previous policies it would be usual for that to be expressed in
>gentler way by the Prime Minister, and the reasons for such a change
>signaled to New Zealanders. Out stance on the middle east has been
>that of a concerned country that is capable of independent thought,
>having humanitarian priorities, and willing to help consensus through
>concern about veto powers that aligned us with other small countries
>without alienating any of our trading partners.
>
>Under the circumstances a cheap shot art a senior ex-politician from
>Australia appears both unnecessary and unproductive. Then abusing that
>person is just stupid - he could have gained more by ignoring his
>comments; but this is after all Winston - he walks to his own drum,
>and we can expect the unexpected from him - the incident emphasises
>that he may well only have a short time left in government and there
>has been speculation that he will make his mark by breaking the
>coalition rather than quietly allow Seymour to become Deputy PM -
>being capricious with the role he has been given may mean that the
>Prime Minister has to actually lead rather than rely on the coalition
>agreements cobbled together without adequate consideration or
>consultation with even the MPs from each coalition party.
Did he defame the man? Yes or no. OK I will answer for you - you don't know any
more than I do.
Talk about cheap shots - this whole thing is cheap and shabby left wing
politics.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

>Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>>
>>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>>
>>On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
>>above suspicion.
>Your statement is plain illogical. Anybody can be accused of anything, that
>does not mean it is valid. Until there is evidence they are ipso facto above
>suspicion.

The evidence is that the news agencies that heard the utterance from
Peters have decided for themselves that his words were sufficiently
clearly either slanderous or insulting that they have were not
prepared to take the risk of action against themselves. Certainly an
empty allegation means little in itself - but now we know that Carr's
lawyer has sent a letter to Winston Peters. We can expect that it will
be significantly more serious than a Green MP crossing the floor of
parliament to talk to another MP.

It is also clear that Peters, and possibly also Luxon and Seymour,
have decided among themselves to take New Zealand away from our
previous independent but loosely aligned international stance -
without discussion or possibly even consideration of the potential
considerable risks to our country.

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony
><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
>>>
>>>> To be accused is meaningless ...
>>>
>>>On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be
>>>above suspicion.
>>Your statement is plain illogical. Anybody can be accused of anything, that
>>does not mean it is valid. Until there is evidence they are ipso facto above
>>suspicion.
>
>The evidence is that the news agencies that heard the utterance from
>Peters have decided for themselves that his words were sufficiently
>clearly either slanderous or insulting that they have were not
>prepared to take the risk of action against themselves. Certainly an
>empty allegation means little in itself - but now we know that Carr's
>lawyer has sent a letter to Winston Peters. We can expect that it will
>be significantly more serious than a Green MP crossing the floor of
>parliament to talk to another MP.
No, that is your hope because that is the sort of person you are.
What news agencies believe is even more irrelevant than your opinion and that
is saying a lot.
Until defamation is proven, this is a political hit job and you are part of it,
aren't you enjoying yourself eh? Childishness personified.
>
>It is also clear that Peters, and possibly also Luxon and Seymour,
>have decided among themselves to take New Zealand away from our
>previous independent but loosely aligned international stance -
>without discussion or possibly even consideration of the potential
>considerable risks to our country.
Nonsense - that makes no sense, not unusual however.

In article <part1of1.1.YNDR6HGDwVAkGA@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
says...
>
> David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
> >says...
> >>
> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
> >>
> >> >><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
> >>action,
> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so
> >>far
> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
> >> information.
> >
> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
> At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not. That
> information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another.
> I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.

Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
public way.

David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>In article <part1of1.1.YNDR6HGDwVAkGA@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>says...
>>
>> David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>> >says...
>> >>
>> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >>>><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>> >>action,
>> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well,
>> >>so
>> >>far
>> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
>> >> information.
>> >
>> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>> At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not.
>>That
>> information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another.
>> I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.
>
>Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
>great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
>public way.
Winston Peters is one of a kind - we all have our opinions of him but he is
what he is.
However, hopefully you will note that I did not say that what he has said is
appropriate, you will note that I have not defended him.
That was not and is not the point of my post.

In article <part1of1.1.huy$Vnl3VKoMew@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
says...
>
> David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
> >In article <part1of1.1.YNDR6HGDwVAkGA@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
> >says...
> >>
> >> David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
> >> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
> >> >says...
> >> >>
> >> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >>>><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
> >> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
> >> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
> >> >>action,
> >> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
> >> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well,
> >> >>so
> >> >>far
> >> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
> >> >> information.
> >> >
> >> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
> >> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
> >> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
> >> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
> >> At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not.
> >>That
> >> information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another.
> >> I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.
> >
> >Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
> >great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
> >public way.
> Winston Peters is one of a kind - we all have our opinions of him but he is
> what he is.
> However, hopefully you will note that I did not say that what he has said is
> appropriate, you will note that I have not defended him.
> That was not and is not the point of my post.

Indeed I did note that. It will be interesting to see if it actually
goes to court - seems like a bit of a waste of time and money. If Mr.
Carr doesn't like what was said I can't imagine drawing a whole lot more
attention to it improving the situation much.

David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>In article <part1of1.1.huy$Vnl3VKoMew@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>says...
>>
>> David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>> >In article <part1of1.1.YNDR6HGDwVAkGA@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>> >says...
>> >>
>> >> David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>> >> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>> >> >says...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>> >> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>> >> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>> >> >>action,
>> >> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>> >> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters -
>> >> >>well,
>> >> >>so
>> >> >>far
>> >> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have
>> >> >>more
>> >> >> information.
>> >> >
>> >> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>> >> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>> >> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>> >> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>> >> At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not.
>> >>That
>> >> information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or
>> >>another.
>> >> I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.
>> >
>> >Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
>> >great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
>> >public way.
>> Winston Peters is one of a kind - we all have our opinions of him but he is
>> what he is.
>> However, hopefully you will note that I did not say that what he has said is
>> appropriate, you will note that I have not defended him.
>> That was not and is not the point of my post.
>
>Indeed I did note that. It will be interesting to see if it actually
>goes to court - seems like a bit of a waste of time and money. If Mr.
>Carr doesn't like what was said I can't imagine drawing a whole lot more
>attention to it improving the situation much.
Yes I agree with all of that.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
<david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:

>In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>says...
>>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>> ><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
>> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
>> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
>> information.
>
>Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

In article <r9693j18slibuvob0davan3mkhcruhbhcd@4ax.com>, blah@blah.blah
says...
>
> On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
> <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>
> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
> >says...
> >>
> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
> >> ><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
> >> information.
> >
> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>
> What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
national radio.

David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>In article <r9693j18slibuvob0davan3mkhcruhbhcd@4ax.com>, blah@blah.blah
>says...
>>
>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
>> <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>> >says...
>> >>
>> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>> >>
>> >> >><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>> >>action,
>> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well,
>> >>so far
>> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
>> >> information.
>> >
>> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>>
>> What if he is a Chinese pupplet?
>
>Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
>national radio.
That's Winston for you.
Perhaps some would prefer the lies that the previous two PMs told us all. Or
the underhand attempt to destroy our democracy that the last government played
with.
Give me honest, if undiplomatic, Winston over those halfwits any day.

On Sun, 5 May 2024 04:42:40 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

>David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>In article <r9693j18slibuvob0davan3mkhcruhbhcd@4ax.com>, blah@blah.blah
>>says...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
>>> <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>>> >says...
>>> >>
>>> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>>> >>
>>> >> >><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>>> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>>> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>>> >>action,
>>> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well,
>>> >>so far
>>> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
>>> >> information.
>>> >
>>> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>>>
>>> What if he is a Chinese pupplet?
>>
>>Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
>>national radio.
Most people agree with you, David. Whether it is defamatory can be
left to Mr Carr as to whether he takes the case to court, to Winston
Peters as to whether he settles before trial by apologising, or if it
goes to court it will be determined on the facts by the Court system.

>That's Winston for you.
>Perhaps some would prefer the lies that the previous two PMs told us all. Or
>the underhand attempt to destroy our democracy that the last government played
>with.
>Give me honest, if undiplomatic, Winston over those halfwits any day.
You are yet again off topic, Tony.

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 5 May 2024 04:42:40 -0000 (UTC), Tony
><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>>In article <r9693j18slibuvob0davan3mkhcruhbhcd@4ax.com>, blah@blah.blah
>>>says...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
>>>> <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>>>> >says...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >>>><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>>>> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>>>> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>>>> >>action,
>>>> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>>>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well,
>>>> >>so far
>>>> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have
>>>> >>more
>>>> >> information.
>>>> >
>>>> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>>>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>>>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>>>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>>>>
>>>> What if he is a Chinese pupplet?
>>>
>>>Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
>>>national radio.
>Most people agree with you, David. Whether it is defamatory can be
>left to Mr Carr as to whether he takes the case to court, to Winston
>Peters as to whether he settles before trial by apologising, or if it
>goes to court it will be determined on the facts by the Court system.
Meanwhile no harm done. So why do you persist with this triviality?
>
>>That's Winston for you.
>>Perhaps some would prefer the lies that the previous two PMs told us all. Or
>>the underhand attempt to destroy our democracy that the last government
>>played
>>with.
>>Give me honest, if undiplomatic, Winston over those halfwits any day.
>You are yet again off topic, Tony.
No, absolutely on topic. This is about Winston, not your delusions.

On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin
<david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:

>In article <r9693j18slibuvob0davan3mkhcruhbhcd@4ax.com>, blah@blah.blah
>says...
>>
>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
>> <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>> >says...
>> >>
>> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>> >> ><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
>> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
>> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
>> >> information.
>> >
>> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>>
>> What if he is a Chinese pupplet?
>
>Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
>national radio.

"Diplomacy is to do and say,
The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.

If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
>On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin
><david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>In article <r9693j18slibuvob0davan3mkhcruhbhcd@4ax.com>, blah@blah.blah
>>says...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
>>> <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>>> >says...
>>> >>
>>> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>>> >>
>>> >> >><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>>> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>>> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>>> >>action,
>>> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well,
>>> >>so far
>>> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have
>>> >>more
>>> >> information.
>>> >
>>> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>>>
>>> What if he is a Chinese pupplet?
>>
>>Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
>>national radio.
>
>"Diplomacy is to do and say,
>The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.
>
>If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?
>
Indeed yes, why not?
Some people will use any trivial excuse to push their politics.

On Sun, 5 May 2024 19:07:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

>BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
>>On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin
>><david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <r9693j18slibuvob0davan3mkhcruhbhcd@4ax.com>, blah@blah.blah
>>>says...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
>>>> <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In article <part1of1.1.zvVI6MBrF5VAVw@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
>>>> >says...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >> >... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
>>>> >> To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
>>>> >> When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
>>>> >>action,
>>>> >> then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
>>>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well,
>>>> >>so far
>>>> >> it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have
>>>> >>more
>>>> >> information.
>>>> >
>>>> >Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
>>>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
>>>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
>>>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
>>>>
>>>> What if he is a Chinese pupplet?
>>>
>>>Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
>>>national radio.
>>
>>"Diplomacy is to do and say,
>>The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.
>>
>>If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?
>>
>Indeed yes, why not?
>Some people will use any trivial excuse to push their politics.

Clearly you, and in this case Winston Peters, either have no
understanding of Diplomacy, or alternatively put your personal
political views ahead of common sense and New Zealand's interests.