I put a set of Dura Ace 10 speed levers on my Trek Alpha. They were something of an older worn set and the right lever doesn'thave enough spring tension to close all of the way. This doesn't matter because the braike spring pulls it all of the way shut. But where is the spring located in the 7800 lever that pushes or pulls the lever shut?

I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.

I intend to move the Dura Ace parts to the Tomassini Fire which woiuld make it the lightest bike I have, And it is steel.

The FSA BB is due in today so I'll be trying the Alpha out tomorrow on Cull Canyon Liebermann can tell you all about that since he is such an experience rider. `

I have to find the Ukraine levers and I will buy a 7800 front derailleur amd a e 105 rear. Then it will be an easy conversion

On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I put a set of Dura Ace 10 speed levers on my Trek Alpha. They were something of an older worn set and the right lever doesn'thave enough spring tension to close all of the way. This doesn't matter because the braike spring pulls it all of the way shut. But where is the spring located in the 7800 lever that pushes or pulls the lever shut?
>
> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
>
> I intend to move the Dura Ace parts to the Tomassini Fire which woiuld make it the lightest bike I have, And it is steel.
>
> The FSA BB is due in today so I'll be trying the Alpha out tomorrow on Cull Canyon Liebermann can tell you all about that since he is such an experience rider. `
>
> I have to find the Ukraine levers and I will buy a 7800 front derailleur amd a e 105 rear. Then it will be an easy conversion

lol....tommy drunk-posting

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 18:05:28 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I'll be trying the Alpha out tomorrow on Cull Canyon Liebermann can tell you all about that since he is such an experience rider.

04/20/2024
"Well, I'm trying to be done with the insults."

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.

Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
a serious tip.

You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.

When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
"Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
"Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.

Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.

Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
everything in its place.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/22/2024 10:15 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>
>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like
>> new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so
>> safe that I can't remember where that is.
>
> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
> a serious tip.
>
> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>
> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
> "Shifters."  Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>
> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>
> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
> everything in its place.
>

I set my workshop up by visiting here:

https://www.containerstore.com/stores/nh/salem/10-south-village-dr

Clear bins, variety of sizes, stackable if desired.

https://www.containerstore.com/s/storage/plastic-bins-baskets/our-clear-storage-boxes/12d?productId=11004743

Benefits of the clear bin is that you don't need to rummage as much, and
little parts don't get stuck under cardboard seams.

But your advice is sound for someone like tommy on a SSI budget who
couldn't likely afford $100 in containers.

On Mon Apr 22 19:07:12 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 18:05:28 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I'll be trying the Alpha out tomorrow on Cull Canyon Liebermann can tell you all about that since he is such an experience rider.
>
> 04/20/2024
> "Well, I'm trying to be done with the insults."
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff, you are a worthless piece of swhit that couldn't be insulted enough. But they are now insults since that implies that they aren't true. Everything I've said about you is 100% true.

On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> >
> > I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
>
> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
> a serious tip.
>
> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>
> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>
> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>
> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
> everything in its place.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because you can buy the things you need when youu need them. So why are you giving advice about things that you couldn't know anything about?

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like
>>> new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so
>>> safe that I can't remember where that is.
>>
>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
>> a serious tip.
>>
>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>>
>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
>> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>>
>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>>
>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
>> everything in its place.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>
>
> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because
> you can buy the things you need when youu need them. So why are you
> giving advice about things that you couldn't know anything about?
>

I’d assume most folks have ended up collecting bits, I have most tools in a
well tool box and few bits that don’t fit such as the bike stand and track
pump, and part worn chain set of all things in the shed.

Ie things have a place and are mostly organised.

Roger Merriman

On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
>>
>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
>> a serious tip.
>>
>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>>
>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
>> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>>
>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>>
>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
>> everything in its place.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>
>
> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because you can buy the things you need when youu need them.

No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I have bike parts
stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff that I bought
new but have not yet used.

Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
meant 5x2.

You need to stop trusting your memory, or your imagination, or whatever.
Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what I've actually said.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue Apr 23 14:44:48 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
> >>
> >> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
> >> a serious tip.
> >>
> >> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
> >>
> >> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
> >> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
> >> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
> >>
> >> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
> >> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
> >>
> >> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
> >> everything in its place.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> >
> >
> > Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because you can buy the things you need when youu need them.
>
> No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I have bike parts
> stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff that I bought
> new but have not yet used.
>
> Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
> meant 5x2.
>
> You need to stop trusting your memory, or your imagination, or whatever.
> Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what I've actually said.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Anyone that brages about having a Huret derailleur is hardly someone to give advice on storing things away
>

On Tue Apr 23 15:41:45 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like
> >>> new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so
> >>> safe that I can't remember where that is.
> >>
> >> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
> >> a serious tip.
> >>
> >> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
> >>
> >> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
> >> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
> >> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
> >>
> >> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
> >> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
> >>
> >> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
> >> everything in its place.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> >
> >
> > Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because
> > you can buy the things you need when youu need them. So why are you
> > giving advice about things that you couldn't know anything about?
> >
>
> I?d assume most folks have ended up collecting bits, I have most tools in a
> well tool box and few bits that don?t fit such as the bike stand and track
> pump, and part worn chain set of all things in the shed.
>
> Ie things have a place and are mostly organised.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

I have at least five tool boxes arranged for their uses. Cars, Planes, Boats, Motorcycles Bicycles and telephone installation. I also thave 3 cuboards full of spare components, and a workbench full of power tools

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like
>>>> new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so
>>>> safe that I can't remember where that is.
>>>
>>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
>>> a serious tip.
>>>
>>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>>>
>>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
>>> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
>>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>>>
>>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
>>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>>>
>>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
>>> everything in its place.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because
>> you can buy the things you need when youu need them.
>
> No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I have bike parts
> stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff that I bought
> new but have not yet used.
>
> Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
> meant 5x2.
>
My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!

But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
the modern one, but front was left friction.

I have had a few derailleurs die off road plus one upgrade ie a clutch
mechanism ie keeps the chain from slapping.

> You need to stop trusting your memory, or your imagination, or whatever.
> Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what I've actually said.
>

Well indeed.

Roger Merriman

On 4/23/2024 5:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tue Apr 23 14:44:48 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
>>>>
>>>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
>>>> a serious tip.
>>>>
>>>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>>>>
>>>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
>>>> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
>>>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
>>>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>>>>
>>>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
>>>> everything in its place.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because you can buy the things you need when youu need them.
>>
>> No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I have bike parts
>> stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff that I bought
>> new but have not yet used.
>>
>> Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>> meant 5x2.
>>
>> You need to stop trusting your memory, or your imagination, or whatever.
>> Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what I've actually said.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>
>
> Anyone that brages about having a Huret derailleur is hardly someone to give advice on storing things away
>>
>
>

Store??
I ride my Svelto derailleur.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>> meant 5x2.
>>
> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>
> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
> the modern one, but front was left friction.

I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.

I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
old derailleurs last a long time.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/23/2024 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tue Apr 23 14:44:48 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
>>>>
>>>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
>>>> a serious tip.
>>>>
>>>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>>>>
>>>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
>>>> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
>>>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
>>>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>>>>
>>>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
>>>> everything in its place.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because you can buy the things you need when youu need them.
>>
>> No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I have bike parts
>> stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff that I bought
>> new but have not yet used.
>>
>> Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>> meant 5x2.
>>
>> You need to stop trusting your memory, or your imagination, or whatever.
>> Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what I've actually said.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>
>
> Anyone that brages about having a Huret derailleur is hardly someone to give advice on storing things away

I didn't brag (or "brage") about it. I mentioned I still have it. Sheesh!

Let's note that I tried to give you some good, simple, fairly obvious
advice on how to stop misplacing your stuff.

A minimally normal person might have said "Hmm. Maybe I should try
that." Instead, you lie about statements you pretend I made, and add
snide comments.

Fine! Keep losing your bike parts, your tools, and whatever remains of
your mind.

Tom, you're a mental and social wreck.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>> meant 5x2.
>>>
>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>
>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>
> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>
> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
> old derailleurs last a long time.
>
If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.

But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
clutches and what not.

Roger Merriman

On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 22:25:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
>Let's note that I tried to give you some good, simple, fairly obvious
>advice on how to stop misplacing your stuff.
>
>A minimally normal person might have said "Hmm. Maybe I should try
>that." Instead, you lie about statements you pretend I made, and add
>snide comments.
>
>Fine! Keep losing your bike parts, your tools, and whatever remains of
>your mind.

Uunsolicited advice is often ignored, so to throw a little hissy fit
when that occurs seems a bit extreme.

On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:29:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>
>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>
>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>
>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>
>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>
>If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>
>But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>clutches and what not.
>
>Roger Merriman

and the pulleys do wear out.

On 4/23/2024 7:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 5:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tue Apr 23 14:44:48 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of
>>>>>> like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them
>>>>>> someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc.
>>>>> Here's
>>>>> a serious tip.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big
>>>>> cardboard boxes.
>>>>>
>>>>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
>>>>> "Shifters."  Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
>>>>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
>>>>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>>>>>
>>>>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything,
>>>>> and
>>>>> everything in its place.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around
>>>> because you can buy the things you need when youu need them.
>>>
>>> No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I have bike parts
>>> stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff that I bought
>>> new but have not yet used.
>>>
>>> Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>> meant 5x2.
>>>
>>> You need to stop trusting your memory, or your imagination, or whatever.
>>> Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what I've actually
>>> said.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone that brages about having a Huret derailleur is hardly someone
>> to give advice on storing things away
>>
>>
>
> Store??
> I ride my Svelto derailleur.

I did a purge long ago and got rid of pretty much all of my 'friction'
stuff except for two one complete gruppo 1989 Chorus 8 speed from when I
bought my Merlin of the same year. I still have all the pieces (except
freewheel and chain) including the toes straps, but one pedal spindle
cover is missing and the other severely damaged - pedaling through
corners in Criteriums. I recently found a NOS Regina 8 13-21 and Sach
chain. I have designs of building up the Ross with ti, which is
currently set up as my fixed-gear, so I'll need to replace that first.

I also have a complete (as it could be) Mavic Mectronic group including
brakes and front derailleur. Mavic never released a Mektronic crankset*.
I plan on refurbishing my Merlin (frame needs a bead blast/polish and
new decals), just haven't gotten around to that.

FWIW, I'd suggest anyone that brags about having a Huret derailleur is
_exactly_ some one to give advice on storing things away, especially
someone who claims to have parts that they can't remember where they
stored them.

*When I bought the group, the MAvic US headquarters was a few miles from
my house in Ward Hill, MA (a village of Haverhill) and I rode with some
of the employees regularly (they had built a neat little pump track in
the woods behind the building). I remember asking them for pretty close
to a year when the Mektronic crankset would be available since it had
been advertised in the sale literature. Eventually they told me that not
only was the crankset not going to be released, but the entire line was
discontinued.

On 4/23/2024 9:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto
>>> derailleur that was
>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when
>>> "ten speed"
>>> meant 5x2.
>>>
>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that
>> point, Suntour in
>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was
>> massively over
>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales
>> from time to time!
>>
>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the
>> shifting was about
>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though
>> rear was indexed for
>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>
> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first
> little bike splurges (when we had very little extra money)
> was to change to SunTour rear derailleurs. The difference in
> shifting was enormous. And the SunTours also allowed bigger
> rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>
> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did.
> I do think old derailleurs last a long time.
>

Agreed. Svelto are not only elegant but also lighter than
all but a couple of top models today. Dirt cheap too.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/23/2024 9:25 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tue Apr 23 14:44:48 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I
>>>>>> have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the
>>>>>> Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't
>>>>>> remember where that is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts,
>>>>> tools, etc. Here's
>>>>> a serious tip.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in
>>>>> big cardboard boxes.
>>>>>
>>>>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf.
>>>>> Label the box
>>>>> "Shifters."  Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a
>>>>> third box
>>>>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes
>>>>> as necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the
>>>>> proper box, and
>>>>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>>>>>
>>>>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for
>>>>> everything, and
>>>>> everything in its place.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare
>>>> parts around because you can buy the things you need
>>>> when youu need them.
>>>
>>> No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I
>>> have bike parts
>>> stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff
>>> that I bought
>>> new but have not yet used.
>>>
>>> Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto
>>> derailleur that was
>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when
>>> "ten speed"
>>> meant 5x2.
>>>
>>> You need to stop trusting your memory, or your
>>> imagination, or whatever.
>>> Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what
>>> I've actually said.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone that brages about having a Huret derailleur is
>> hardly someone to give advice on storing things away
>
> I didn't brag (or "brage") about it. I mentioned I still
> have it. Sheesh!
>
> Let's note that I tried to give you some good, simple,
> fairly obvious advice on how to stop misplacing your stuff.
>
> A minimally normal person might have said "Hmm. Maybe I
> should try that." Instead, you lie about statements you
> pretend I made, and add snide comments.
>
> Fine! Keep losing your bike parts, your tools, and whatever
> remains of your mind.
>
> Tom, you're a mental and social wreck.
>

in re fashion, I purposely use my steel Svelto on my
titanium race bike. Works well, looks great and drives
observers to distraction.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>
>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>
>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>
>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>
>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>
> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>
> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
> clutches and what not.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.

Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
that's not a change in the spring itself.

*else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
wrist today keeps perfect time.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:29:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>
>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>
>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>
>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>
>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>
>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>
>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>> clutches and what not.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> and the pulleys do wear out.
>

Well yes and if one wants (I don’t) can get all sorts of oversized ones
that will increase efficiency by some improbable amount.

I just change them out when they look worn.

Roger Merriman

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>
>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>
>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>
>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>
>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>
>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>
>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>> clutches and what not.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
>
> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
> that's not a change in the spring itself.
>
> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
> wrist today keeps perfect time.

The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was perfectly in
tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years climbing the
Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding across West London.

Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring the shifting
back to normal.

Roger Merriman

On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>
>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>>
>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>
>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>
>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>
>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>> clutches and what not.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
>> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
>> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
>>
>> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
>> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
>> that's not a change in the spring itself.
>>
>> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
>> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
>> wrist today keeps perfect time.
>
> The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was perfectly in
> tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years climbing the
> Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding across West London.
>
> Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring the shifting
> back to normal.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots
--
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