Making much progress on my 85-yo friend's phone. She has no sim and is
only using wifi.

I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
you think that is likely?

By using @ndLine, I've gotten beyond needing basic wifi calling, but do
you think there are other limitations on the phone now if it is still
locked to Metro???? If there are none, why should I bother to unlock
it? If there are some, some would be more important than others. ??

***After the Motorola flash screens on phone startup, there is a
full-screen Metro PCC flash screen.

micky wrote:

> She has no sim and is
> only using wifi.
>
> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
> you think that is likely?

She can't have "real" WiFi-calling without a SIM ...

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 20:36:20 +0000, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>
>> She has no sim and is
>> only using wifi.
>>
>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
>> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
>> you think that is likely?
>
>She can't have "real" WiFi-calling without a SIM ...

Maybe I should have repeated her whole story. With his permission, she
uses the wifi of her next door neighbor. Right now, all she does with it
is watch videos. When I try to enable wifi-calling, it gives an error
and on the same screen or the previous screen it lists Metro and says
it's unavailable. I assume that's because the Metro sim is not in
place, and I guess the wifi she's using comes from the neighbor's
router, not his phone. It also, under Phone, continues to list a phone
number, which I assume is or was the phone number of the young man who
gave her his old phone.

By real, I just meant using the default dialer and not using an
additional App like google voice or 2ndLine or TextNow.

So, what do you think about the question whether she is locked now and
whether I should try to unlock the phone?

On 2/24/24 12:59 PM, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 20:36:20 +0000, Andy Burns
> <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>>micky wrote:
>>
>>> She has no sim and is
>>> only using wifi.
>>>
>>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
>>> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
>>> you think that is likely?
>>
>>She can't have "real" WiFi-calling without a SIM ...
>
> Maybe I should have repeated her whole story. With his permission, she
> uses the wifi of her next door neighbor. Right now, all she does with it
> is watch videos. When I try to enable wifi-calling, it gives an error
> and on the same screen or the previous screen it lists Metro and says
> it's unavailable. I assume that's because the Metro sim is not in
> place, and I guess the wifi she's using comes from the neighbor's
> router, not his phone. It also, under Phone, continues to list a phone
> number, which I assume is or was the phone number of the young man who
> gave her his old phone.
>
> By real, I just meant using the default dialer and not using an
> additional App like google voice or 2ndLine or TextNow.
>
> So, what do you think about the question whether she is locked now and
> whether I should try to unlock the phone?

Why not? There's no reason it SHOULD be locked, is there?

I make google voice calls through my home wifi without involving the
SIM, which is turned off. I assume that's what she wants to do and
don't see why it's not possible unless Metro/T-Mobile is latching on for
some reason.

Actually, that's quite possible. When I had the free-forever (HA!)
Freedompop SIM it refused to let me make calls via the home wifi even
after it would no longer make calls itself. Ultimately Freedompop did
whatever it needed to...

DO IT!

--
Cheers, Bev
...so few snipers, so many politicians...

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 15:19:37 -0500, micky wrote:

> Making much progress on my 85-yo friend's phone. She has no sim and is
> only using wifi.
>
> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
> you think that is likely?
>
> By using @ndLine, I've gotten beyond needing basic wifi calling, but do
> you think there are other limitations on the phone now if it is still
> locked to Metro???? If there are none, why should I bother to unlock
> it? If there are some, some would be more important than others. ??
>
> ***After the Motorola flash screens on phone startup, there is a
> full-screen Metro PCC flash screen.

I think you may have misunderstood how wifi calling works.

Here's the problem. If somebody tries to call you how does Whatsapp or
any of the other apps know which phone it should ring? My understanding
is that when Whatsapp starts it gets you phone number from your own phone
and sends it to their servers. So they now know your IP address and your
phone number so that when someone calls you it can look up your phone
number and get your IP address and so ring your phone.

But I think that is all that is needed. Your number may even have expired
as your contract with your Telco has finished but so long as the phone is
able to send a message to Whatsapp then wifi calling will work. So maybe
any old SIM will work providing it has a phone number associated with it.

Or maybe its me who has misunderstood how wifi calling works.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 13:27:08 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/24/24 12:59 PM, micky wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 20:36:20 +0000, Andy Burns
>> <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>micky wrote:
>>>
>>>> She has no sim and is
>>>> only using wifi.
>>>>
>>>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
>>>> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
>>>> you think that is likely?
>>>
>>>She can't have "real" WiFi-calling without a SIM ...
>>
>> Maybe I should have repeated her whole story. With his permission, she
>> uses the wifi of her next door neighbor. Right now, all she does with it
>> is watch videos. When I try to enable wifi-calling, it gives an error
>> and on the same screen or the previous screen it lists Metro and says
>> it's unavailable. I assume that's because the Metro sim is not in
>> place, and I guess the wifi she's using comes from the neighbor's
>> router, not his phone. It also, under Phone, continues to list a phone
>> number, which I assume is or was the phone number of the young man who
>> gave her his old phone.
>>
>> By real, I just meant using the default dialer and not using an
>> additional App like google voice or 2ndLine or TextNow.
>>
>> So, what do you think about the question whether she is locked now and
>> whether I should try to unlock the phone?
>
>Why not? There's no reason it SHOULD be locked, is there?

Well, that's what I was asking you all. I figured other things might
depend on it, even if that doesn't make sense.

And because I expect it will be a lot of work. All kinds of things that
should be simple regarding phones then have a bunch of roadblocks.

And because one source said that I could request it and they'd get back
to me in a couple days, and I wanted to return the phone earlier today
or at least tomorrow.

But based on your encouragement I decided to try. The Unlock app was
not in the app drawer like they said it should be, but it also said that
then I should call an 800 number. I did, and I only had to say Operator
once tio get to a person. He was very polite and only asked for the
IMEI number, read it back to me, disappeared and came back 5 minutes
later to say it was done!!

But how did he know I wasn't just a trouble-maker?

Then I immediately got a request for a 3-question survey, and it asked
from 1-3 if I'd gotten done what I called for. I didn't know what to
say, but I said Yes. Then it said I could comment, verbally, so I did
and I pointed out I hadn't had time to see if I was really unlocked.

After the phone call I restarted the phone and the Metro splash page was
still there, and the error when I tried to turn on wifi-calling was
still t here, and other things had not changed either!!

So I looked and a sim card with no name but some numbers was there. I
took it out and yet still the Metro splash screen is still there, but
inside it no longer mentions Metro in the Settings/Calls page. However,
the wifi option no longer exists becauze it seems to have been tied to
Metro, even though when you use it, you're using an internet provider
but not using the cellurlar provider, right?

There was also an SD card with 128 written on it. Not 128GB, so I guess
it's just 128 Bytes. So I decided to look at the files and he has a
couple hundred songs totally 20GB, and about 40 images but half of them
look like accidental screen shots. The songs sound terrible, partly
because it's a cell phone but also because he's 25 years old and he
listens to terrible songs.

>I make google voice calls through my home wifi without involving the
>SIM, which is turned off. I assume that's what she wants to do and
>don't see why it's not possible unless Metro/T-Mobile is latching on for
>some reason.
>
>Actually, that's quite possible. When I had the free-forever (HA!)
>Freedompop SIM it refused to let me make calls via the home wifi even
>after it would no longer make calls itself. Ultimately Freedompop did
>whatever it needed to...
>
>DO IT!

I tried, but I guess it's still locked. (Unless it takes days to take
effect. ???? One of the webpages, dated September 19, 2023, which is
not long ago, said " Once the agent verifies you qualify for an unlock,
they will submit an unlock request on your behalf. MetroPCS states the
request should be processed in 1-2 business days.

You'll receive a text message from MetroPCS when the unlock request is
approved. The text will include your 16-digit unlock code. Make sure to
keep this text for reference."
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-unlock-metropcs-phone-free-2023-robiul-hossain/
But he didn't say anyything about waiting 2 days and he has no way to
send me a text. I'll check tomorrow before I return the phone and then
next time I see her.

But 2ndLine is still working well. I found the icon for Youtube and
Revanced is installed. And TeamViewer is set up. So I think I'm done.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 23:18:37 GMT, Kit Jackson
<dummyemail@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 15:19:37 -0500, micky wrote:
>
>> Making much progress on my 85-yo friend's phone. She has no sim and is
>> only using wifi.
>>
>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
>> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
>> you think that is likely?
>>
>> By using @ndLine, I've gotten beyond needing basic wifi calling, but do
>> you think there are other limitations on the phone now if it is still
>> locked to Metro???? If there are none, why should I bother to unlock
>> it? If there are some, some would be more important than others. ??
>>
>> ***After the Motorola flash screens on phone startup, there is a
>> full-screen Metro PCC flash screen.
>
>I think you may have misunderstood how wifi calling works.
>
>Here's the problem. If somebody tries to call you how does Whatsapp or
>any of the other apps know which phone it should ring? My understanding
>is that when Whatsapp starts it gets you phone number from your own phone
>and sends it to their servers. So they now know your IP address and your
>phone number so that when someone calls you it can look up your phone
>number and get your IP address and so ring your phone.
>
>But I think that is all that is needed. Your number may even have expired
>as your contract with your Telco has finished but so long as the phone is
>able to send a message to Whatsapp then wifi calling will work. So maybe
>any old SIM will work providing it has a phone number associated with it.
>
>Or maybe its me who has misunderstood how wifi calling works.

I think you're right, but this all gives rise to another question.

Google voice, 2ndLine, TextNow, etc are all givin away phone numbers,
and there are only 1 billion phone numbers for the USA, which has 300
million people, almost as many landlines, almost as many cellphones,
almost as many fax machines and quite a few soft-drink machines**. They
total at least 500,000,000, so knowing how people are, it's reckless to
give away phone numbers for free.

One of them outright said that if you didn't use your number for a
while, yuo'd loose it, but of course they didn't want to say how long
because that probably varies a lot.

Do they call or email and warn you before taking away your free phone
number?

Any idea how often you have to use it, not to lose it? Is 6 months
beyond the Sell-by date?

On 2/24/24 5:28 PM, micky wrote:

>Google voice, 2ndLine, TextNow, etc are all givin away phone numbers,
>and there are only 1 billion phone numbers for the USA, which has 300
>million people, almost as many landlines, almost as many cellphones,
>almost as many fax machines and quite a few soft-drink machines**. They
>total at least 500,000,000, so knowing how people are, it's reckless to
>give away phone numbers for free.

Guilty as charged.

>One of them outright said that if you didn't use your number for a
>while, yuo'd loose it, but of course they didn't want to say how long
>because that probably varies a lot.
>Do they call or email and warn you before taking away your free phone
>number?

Google never notified me if they cancelled my number. I haven't used it in
years and don't know how to check it if I wanted to. Not worth the
hassle...

Years ago my local Target store put unsold new phones on the discount rack.
I picked up one for 13 bucks. I used it as a mini Android tablet. I used it
mostly for listening to Internet radio while working in the yard. (I was
surprised to find that my WiFi covered not only my yard but several houses
down the street.) I never tried Google Voice on it but it should have
worked just as well as the internet radio. My GUESS is that your phone
should too, no matter what the cell radio condition as long as the WiFi
(both ends) is working...

The Real Bev wrote:

> I make google voice calls through my home wifi without involving the SIM

But that isn't "real" WiFi-calling, that's why I put the real in
scarequotes, what "other" type of calling is micky trying to get
working? whatsapp, googlevoice, a SIP softphone, etc?

On 2/24/24 7:04 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I make google voice calls through my home wifi without involving the SIM
>
> But that isn't "real" WiFi-calling, that's why I put the real in
> scarequotes, what "other" type of calling is micky trying to get
> working? whatsapp, googlevoice, a SIP softphone, etc?

I believe that the problem is that the phone has NO phone number. The
Metro number is dead. No idea why the splash screen is still there.
Perhaps there's an app still on the phone that needs to be deleted. Hunt
through the apps and then the settings.

Google voice provides a free phone number which you can access via any
wifi connection you can make. Starbucks, Walmart, your own home router,
your neighbor's router...

Get a google mail account (if you don't have one, which is very close to
inconceivable) and get a google voice number to associate with it.
Install the google voice app. I use '555-1212' to check for connection
without disturbing a human.

--
Cheers, Bev
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 19:49:19 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/24/24 7:04 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> I make google voice calls through my home wifi without involving the SIM
>>
>> But that isn't "real" WiFi-calling, that's why I put the real in
>> scarequotes, what "other" type of calling is micky trying to get
>> working? whatsapp, googlevoice, a SIP softphone, etc?
>
>
>I believe that the problem is that the phone has NO phone number. The
>Metro number is dead. No idea why the splash screen is still there.

Well, I guess I was impatient. I turned the phone on 2 or 3 hours later
and the Metro splash screen was gone. And of course the wifi option
was still gone, because I think that only showed if you clicked on the
mobile network, which is now blank, and because, as you say, it has no
phone number.

Under About Phone, where it used to have a phone number, it now says
Unknown.

One more of the Metro apps now do nothing, total of 2, so I erased the
icons, but MetroZone still works. It provides news videos and stories,
especially regarding entertainment, but some politics.

I even filled in her 911 information, though I doubt she'll use it
instead of the cordless "lingo-service" wired phone.

I think she'll be very happy.

>Perhaps there's an app still on the phone that needs to be deleted. Hunt
>through the apps and then the settings.
>
>Google voice provides a free phone number which you can access via any
>wifi connection you can make. Starbucks, Walmart, your own home router,
>your neighbor's router...
>
>Get a google mail account (if you don't have one, which is very close to
>inconceivable) and get a google voice number to associate with it.
>Install the google voice app. I use '555-1212' to check for connection
>without disturbing a human.

On 2/24/24 9:28 PM, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 19:49:19 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2/24/24 7:04 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> I make google voice calls through my home wifi without involving the SIM
>>>
>>> But that isn't "real" WiFi-calling, that's why I put the real in
>>> scarequotes, what "other" type of calling is micky trying to get
>>> working? whatsapp, googlevoice, a SIP softphone, etc?
>>
>>
>>I believe that the problem is that the phone has NO phone number. The
>>Metro number is dead. No idea why the splash screen is still there.
>
> Well, I guess I was impatient. I turned the phone on 2 or 3 hours later
> and the Metro splash screen was gone. And of course the wifi option
> was still gone, because I think that only showed if you clicked on the
> mobile network, which is now blank, and because, as you say, it has no
> phone number.
>
> Under About Phone, where it used to have a phone number, it now says
> Unknown.
>
> One more of the Metro apps now do nothing, total of 2, so I erased the
> icons, but MetroZone still works. It provides news videos and stories,
> especially regarding entertainment, but some politics.
>
> I even filled in her 911 information, though I doubt she'll use it
> instead of the cordless "lingo-service" wired phone.
>
> I think she'll be very happy.

So she doesn't need to actually use it as a phone?

>>Perhaps there's an app still on the phone that needs to be deleted. Hunt
>>through the apps and then the settings.
>>
>>Google voice provides a free phone number which you can access via any
>>wifi connection you can make. Starbucks, Walmart, your own home router,
>>your neighbor's router...
>>
>>Get a google mail account (if you don't have one, which is very close to
>>inconceivable) and get a google voice number to associate with it.
>>Install the google voice app. I use '555-1212' to check for connection
>>without disturbing a human.

--
Cheers, Bev
Hmph. I used to have snow tires. Never again. They melted in the
spring. I won't even start going on about my wood stove.
-- websurf1

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> writes:

> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 20:36:20 +0000, Andy Burns
> <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>>micky wrote:
>>
>>> She has no sim and is only using wifi.
>>>
>>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe????
>>> other problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by
>>> T-mobile***. Do you think that is likely?
>>
>>She can't have "real" WiFi-calling without a SIM ...
>
> Maybe I should have repeated her whole story. With his permission,
> she uses the wifi of her next door neighbor. Right now, all she does
> with it is watch videos. When I try to enable wifi-calling, it gives
> an error and on the same screen or the previous screen it lists Metro
> and says it's unavailable. I assume that's because the Metro sim is
> not in place, and I guess the wifi she's using comes from the
> neighbor's router, not his phone. It also, under Phone, continues to
> list a phone number, which I assume is or was the phone number of the
> young man who gave her his old phone.
>
> By real, I just meant using the default dialer and not using an
> additional App like google voice or 2ndLine or TextNow.
>
> So, what do you think about the question whether she is locked now and
> whether I should try to unlock the phone?

If you enable wifi calling and then phone a landline, how will the call
be charged for without a SIM card? 'Wifi calling' is a specific term for
the service provided by the network operator for when there is no
signal, and it is normally charged in the same way as a call through the
cellular network. It's different from the kind provided by Signal,
Skype, etc.

(Excuse me if that's already answered somewhere).

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 22:16:27 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/24/24 9:28 PM, micky wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 19:49:19 -0800, The Real Bev
>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2/24/24 7:04 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I make google voice calls through my home wifi without involving the SIM
>>>>
>>>> But that isn't "real" WiFi-calling, that's why I put the real in
>>>> scarequotes, what "other" type of calling is micky trying to get
>>>> working? whatsapp, googlevoice, a SIP softphone, etc?
>>>
>>>
>>>I believe that the problem is that the phone has NO phone number. The
>>>Metro number is dead. No idea why the splash screen is still there.
>>
>> Well, I guess I was impatient. I turned the phone on 2 or 3 hours later
>> and the Metro splash screen was gone. And of course the wifi option
>> was still gone, because I think that only showed if you clicked on the
>> mobile network, which is now blank, and because, as you say, it has no
>> phone number.
>>
>> Under About Phone, where it used to have a phone number, it now says
>> Unknown.
>>
>> One more of the Metro apps now do nothing, total of 2, so I erased the
>> icons, but MetroZone still works. It provides news videos and stories,
>> especially regarding entertainment, but some politics.
>>
>> I even filled in her 911 information, though I doubt she'll use it
>> instead of the cordless "lingo-service" wired phone.
>>
>> I think she'll be very happy.
>
>So she doesn't need to actually use it as a phone?

Not for calls in the Baltimore area, but to call her brother, she does.
He's is living in some sort of care facility closer to DC because he has
brain damage.

I meant if she ever has to call 911, she'll likely use the phone she
uses most of the time.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 14:34:30 +0000, Richmond
<dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> writes:
>
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 20:36:20 +0000, Andy Burns
>> <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>micky wrote:
>>>
>>>> She has no sim and is only using wifi.
>>>>
>>>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe????
>>>> other problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by
>>>> T-mobile***. Do you think that is likely?
>>>
>>>She can't have "real" WiFi-calling without a SIM ...
>>
>> Maybe I should have repeated her whole story. With his permission,
>> she uses the wifi of her next door neighbor. Right now, all she does
>> with it is watch videos. When I try to enable wifi-calling, it gives
>> an error and on the same screen or the previous screen it lists Metro
>> and says it's unavailable. I assume that's because the Metro sim is
>> not in place, and I guess the wifi she's using comes from the
>> neighbor's router, not his phone. It also, under Phone, continues to
>> list a phone number, which I assume is or was the phone number of the
>> young man who gave her his old phone.
>>
>> By real, I just meant using the default dialer and not using an
>> additional App like google voice or 2ndLine or TextNow.
>>
>> So, what do you think about the question whether she is locked now and
>> whether I should try to unlock the phone?
>
>If you enable wifi calling and then phone a landline, how will the call
>be charged for without a SIM card?

Well, most are free, or no extra charge, anyhow.

>'Wifi calling' is a specific term for
>the service provided by the network operator for when there is no

Is network operator the same as cellular provider?

>signal, and it is normally charged in the same way as a call through the
>cellular network. It's different from the kind provided by Signal,
>Skype, etc.

I'm either not understanding or not convinced.

So, I haven't hooked up my wifi-calling, I don't even know if I can,
(because I make most of my calls from home on the 'real' phone.) but if
I did, and I used my wifi, provided by Verizon, or I was at a friend's
and used his wifi, provided by Comcast/Xfinity, either way the internet
company would relay the calling information to my cellular provider so
they could bill me. I thought the advantage of using wifi was that
there were no minutes used, for data and also for calls, but if the
cellular company is going to bill you, maybe the same as if you called
on its cellular signal, than not using minutes is no advantage.

It was a big advance when cell phones were able to use the wifi signal,
but this sounds like it was no advance at all.

OR, if Verizon doesn't relay the information, the phone could store it
and send it to the cellular company when next it had a cellular signal.
But I don't think that happens either.

I'll agree that I can't use wifi without the sim, at least the way this
phone is built, but I'm not convinced about your reason.

>(Excuse me if that's already answered somewhere).

Has not yet been discussed, let alone answered.

micky wrote:

> I'm either not understanding or not convinced.
> So, I haven't hooked up my wifi-calling

What you seem to be misunderstanding is that "wifi-calling" has a
precise meaning in relation to phones and it *requires* a SIM, it is a
specific method of making calls when you are out of cell signal coverage
by substituting a wifi signal, the call will arrive at the destination
with the CLI of the SIM.

There are any number of other services which allow you to speak to other
peple, and which make use of wifi (WhatsApp, Zoiper, GoogleVoice etc)
but they should *not* be referred to as "wifi-calling", that's what's
caused the confusion here ...

On 2/25/24 10:11 AM, micky wrote:

>It was a big advance when cell phones were able to use the wifi signal,
>but this sounds like it was no advance at all.

When I got the (real) WiFi-Calling I was able to get rid of my landline
since the service became just as good. Before that things were sketchy with
the cell. Also I had no service at my grandaughter's house. I hooked up to
her WiFi and things were good. So Wi-Fi calling was definitely an advance
for me...

>I'll agree that I can't use wifi without the sim, at least the way this
>phone is built, but I'm not convinced about your reason.

There's been some confusion here between the Wi-Fi calling built into the
phone (I'll call it the real Wi-Fi calling) and the various services like
Google Voice that also use the phone's Wi-Fi for calls but don't use the
cell service. I imagine it depends on the phone but with my cheapie Target
sale phone I just turned off the cell radio and used the WiFi as normal...

Am 25.02.24 um 18:11 schrieb micky:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 14:34:30 +0000, Richmond
> <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> writes:
>>
>>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 20:36:20 +0000, Andy Burns
>>> <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> She has no sim and is only using wifi.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe????
>>>>> other problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by
>>>>> T-mobile***. Do you think that is likely?
>>>>
>>>> She can't have "real" WiFi-calling without a SIM ...
>>>
>>> Maybe I should have repeated her whole story. With his permission,
>>> she uses the wifi of her next door neighbor. Right now, all she does
>>> with it is watch videos. When I try to enable wifi-calling, it gives
>>> an error and on the same screen or the previous screen it lists Metro
>>> and says it's unavailable. I assume that's because the Metro sim is
>>> not in place, and I guess the wifi she's using comes from the
>>> neighbor's router, not his phone. It also, under Phone, continues to
>>> list a phone number, which I assume is or was the phone number of the
>>> young man who gave her his old phone.
>>>
>>> By real, I just meant using the default dialer and not using an
>>> additional App like google voice or 2ndLine or TextNow.
>>>
>>> So, what do you think about the question whether she is locked now and
>>> whether I should try to unlock the phone?
>>
>> If you enable wifi calling and then phone a landline, how will the call
>> be charged for without a SIM card?
>
> Well, most are free, or no extra charge, anyhow.
>
>> 'Wifi calling' is a specific term for
>> the service provided by the network operator for when there is no
>
> Is network operator the same as cellular provider?
>
>> signal, and it is normally charged in the same way as a call through the
>> cellular network. It's different from the kind provided by Signal,
>> Skype, etc.
>
> I'm either not understanding or not convinced.

Because you do not understand "Wifi-calling". It is an extension of the
regular mobile service. No such thing without a SIM.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

micky, 2024-02-24 21:19:

> Making much progress on my 85-yo friend's phone. She has no sim and is
> only using wifi.
>
> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
> you think that is likely?

Without a SIM there is no "WiFi calling" since the phone is then not
registered in any mobile network and thus does not have a phone number
either - and this is needed for calling.

You may however use some SIP/VoIP provider an app like Sipdroid or try
the integrated VoIP client of Android, depending on what the phone supports.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Kit Jackson, 2024-02-25 00:18:

[...]
> But I think that is all that is needed. Your number may even have expired
> as your contract with your Telco has finished but so long as the phone is
> able to send a message to Whatsapp then wifi calling will work. So maybe
> any old SIM will work providing it has a phone number associated with it.

No - "WiFi calling" means that the phone is registered in a mobile
network using an *active* SIM and it using WiFi instead of mobile
network for outgoing or incoming phone calls. This has to be supported
by mobile network provider, the mobile plan and your WiFi network has to
allow a connection to the server of the mobile network provider.

Using WhatsApp to call people is *not* "WiFi calling. This is just using
WhatsApp to establish a live audio/video connection with someone else
who also has WhatsApps.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

micky, 2024-02-25 01:28:

> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Feb 2024 23:18:37 GMT, Kit Jackson
> <dummyemail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 15:19:37 -0500, micky wrote:
>>
>>> Making much progress on my 85-yo friend's phone. She has no sim and is
>>> only using wifi.
>>>
>>> I think the problem getting wifi-calling to work, and maybe???? other
>>> problems, is that the phone is still locked to Metro by T-mobile***. Do
>>> you think that is likely?
>>>
>>> By using @ndLine, I've gotten beyond needing basic wifi calling, but do
>>> you think there are other limitations on the phone now if it is still
>>> locked to Metro???? If there are none, why should I bother to unlock
>>> it? If there are some, some would be more important than others. ??
>>>
>>> ***After the Motorola flash screens on phone startup, there is a
>>> full-screen Metro PCC flash screen.
>>
>> I think you may have misunderstood how wifi calling works.
>>
>> Here's the problem. If somebody tries to call you how does Whatsapp or
>> any of the other apps know which phone it should ring? My understanding
>> is that when Whatsapp starts it gets you phone number from your own phone
>> and sends it to their servers. So they now know your IP address and your
>> phone number so that when someone calls you it can look up your phone
>> number and get your IP address and so ring your phone.
>>
>> But I think that is all that is needed. Your number may even have expired
>> as your contract with your Telco has finished but so long as the phone is
>> able to send a message to Whatsapp then wifi calling will work. So maybe
>> any old SIM will work providing it has a phone number associated with it.
>>
>> Or maybe its me who has misunderstood how wifi calling works.
>
> I think you're right, but this all gives rise to another question.
>
> Google voice, 2ndLine, TextNow, etc are all givin away phone numbers,

No - they sell a service. You need to register there *and* use an app to
use that service, like this:

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.number.app.im>

The phone numbers are in fact owned by those companies and they run VoIP
servers which accept incoming calls to that numbers and forward the
connection to the respective app or vice versa, when you use the app to
call someone, you use in fact your internet connection to the server
which acts as a VoIP gateway for outgoing calls.

But all this has nothing to do with "WiFi calling" - it is just a VoIP
service which needs proprietary apps and often a paid service.

Skype was once of the first apps for this - using Skype and the paid
"SkypeOut" plan you can also call real phone numbers with Skype on your
computer or smartphone and they als offer getting a real phone number
where other people can call you and in fact end up in your Skype client.

Microsoft also offers this for Teams nowadays.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 17:22:34 +0000, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>
>> I'm either not understanding or not convinced.
>> So, I haven't hooked up my wifi-calling
>
>What you seem to be misunderstanding is that "wifi-calling" has a
>precise meaning in relation to phones and it *requires* a SIM, it is a

On the contrary. I said at the end of the post, that you snipped,
"I'll agree that I can't use wifi without the sim, at least the way this
phone is built, but I'm not convinced about your reason.' I was posting
about the reason given.

>specific method of making calls when you are out of cell signal coverage
>by substituting a wifi signal, the call will arrive at the destination
>with the CLI of the SIM.
>
>There are any number of other services which allow you to speak to other
>peple, and which make use of wifi (WhatsApp, Zoiper, GoogleVoice etc)
>but they should *not* be referred to as "wifi-calling", that's what's
>caused the confusion here ...

Maybe so but I never referred to them that way.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 17:44:35 -0000 (UTC), AJL
<noemail@none.org> wrote:

>On 2/25/24 10:11 AM, micky wrote:
>
>>It was a big advance when cell phones were able to use the wifi signal,
>>but this sounds like it was no advance at all.
>
>When I got the (real) WiFi-Calling I was able to get rid of my landline
> since the service became just as good. Before that things were sketchy with
> the cell. Also I had no service at my grandaughter's house. I hooked up to
> her WiFi and things were good. So Wi-Fi calling was definitely an advance
> for me...
>
>>I'll agree that I can't use wifi without the sim, at least the way this
>>phone is built, but I'm not convinced about your reason.

Okay, so it defintely was an advance even if they charged, but do they
charge? If you use wifi calling does it get back to your cellular
provider and do the charge for it, USA calls, international calls.
>
>There's been some confusion here between the Wi-Fi calling built into the
> phone (I'll call it the real Wi-Fi calling) and the various services like
> Google Voice that also use the phone's Wi-Fi for calls but don't use the
> cell service. I imagine it depends on the phone but with my cheapie Target
> sale phone I just turned off the cell radio and used the WiFi as normal...
>

On 2/26/2024 10:06 PM, micky wrote:
> AJL noemail@none.org> wrote:
>> On 2/25/24 10:11 AM, micky wrote:

>> When I got the (real) WiFi-Calling I was able to get rid of my landline
>> since the service became just as good. Before that things were sketchy with
>> the cell. Also I had no service at my grandaughter's house. I hooked up to
>> her WiFi and things were good. So Wi-Fi calling was definitely an advance
>> for me...

>>> I'll agree that I can't use wifi without the sim, at least the way this
>>> phone is built, but I'm not convinced about your reason.

If you want to use a cell service for "the real" WiFi calling then for
sure you'll need a SIM. But if you just want to use the WiFi on the
phone (like you would WiFi on a tablet) for using Google Voice or other
calling apps then maybe not.

The 2 cheap phones I bought on the Target discount rack to play with
never had a SIM and they both worked just fine using their regular WiFi
radio (again like a tablet). But I first turned off their cell radio.

I did it by putting the phone in Airplane Mode (in settings). That
turned off both the cell and WiFi radios. Then I turned the WiFi radio
back on again (in settings). In my phones that kept the cell radio off
but the WiFi stayed on and usable (again like a tablet).

If you haven't tried this on your phone give it a try and see if it
works. If it does then you should be able to use Google Voice and
similar apps on it without a SIM.

> Okay, so it definitely was an advance even if they charged, but do they
> charge? If you use wifi calling does it get back to your cellular
> provider and do the charge for it, USA calls, international calls.

If you use the provider's WiFi calling (switched on in settings in my
phone), you are using your provider's services just as if it was using a
cell tower. All charges will be the same.

But if you use Google Voice or another calling app through the WiFi then
you are NOT using your provider and there will be no provider charges.
However depending on how you use them, Google Voice or other apps may
charge you...

micky wrote:

> If you use wifi calling does it get back to your cellular
> provider and do the charge for it, USA calls, international calls.

yes, wifi-calling contacts your mobile provider over your wifi and
internet, from there it's the same as if the phone had contacted them
e.g. using an LTE tower.

You then get charged the same for the calls, whichever way your phone
reaches the provider (if it would normally be included in a bundle, it
still will be)